Gen Z On What It’s Like To Be Young & Black In Britain Today

Gen Z is so misunderstood. They’re often portrayed as being wannabe influencers who won’t get off TikTok; they vape too much and spend money they don’t have on buy now, pay later schemes. But while every generation has its flaws, if you look a little closer, Gen Zers are more switched on than they might first appear. And they might just save the world. 
Earlier this year in the UK, thousands of people flocked to the streets in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, following the tragic deaths in America of Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Tony McDade and Ahmaud Arbery. But from Manchester to Bristol, London to Liverpool, it was the young Black people passionately calling for change, equality and respect who defined the protests. 
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The movement prompted many important discussions, with organisations forced to confront the reality of institutional racism within their structures, schools evaluating and decolonising the curriculum and celebrities such as John Boyega using their voices to demand change. Perhaps the defining moment of the UK protests was the toppling of slave trader Edward Colston’s statue in Bristol.
Is it enough, and what does this all mean for future generations of Black people? Will Britain be a better place for them? Will they feel like they belong in a country that is only just awakening to its racist past and reckoning with its present-day racism?
For Black History Month, we thought it would be interesting to hear from young Black women about their futures, so we spoke to Gen Zers from all corners of the UK to find out what life is really like for them and how they see their futures in Britain. You’ll be pleased to know that they have more fire in their bellies than ever before.
Here’s what these incredible changemakers had to say.

Hope Ndaba 

Age: 23 
Location: London
Occupation: Publicity assistant in publishing
What do you make of the current political, economic and racial situation in the UK?
"I saw this tweet saying, 'I emotionally checked out of what happens in the UK the night of the last general election' and I’ve never felt so seen. It’s a strange time to be living in the UK and every time you think things couldn’t get any worse, you are proven wrong. It’s heartbreaking to watch the lives of minorities and those of the lower classes be disregarded on a daily basis and to think that there is a parallel time when things went differently and we potentially could have had a more empathetic and proactive government. The UK economy is in an absolute state which has only been worsened by the pandemic and will be likely to decline with Brexit approaching. In terms of the racial situation, I think we are facing a reckoning in the UK. We’ve seen racists show their faces quite boldly, saying that the UK is ‘not as bad as the US’ or ‘it could be worse’, but the racism here is horrible and the kind that leaves mental scars."
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How do you hope Britain will change in the next decade?
"I hope in the next decade we can all learn to be more empathetic and caring. I would love to live in a Britain that nurtures and strengthens its people. I want a guarantee that our National Health Service will still be around to help the people of this country as free healthcare is our right. I would love to see more affordable housing for the people living and working in busy cities and I actually mean affordable, not £300k apartments in newly gentrified areas. I hope that this pandemic has proven that we do not need to be chained to office desks and promotes a culture of flexible working. I would also love to see the rights of key workers better protected too and for them to be treated with respect. I could go on but ultimately, I want to live in a society that does not pander to the capitalistic whims of the 1%. I want to see us reap the benefits of the systems we pay into with our hard-earned money."
Who are your heroes?
"I’m going to cheat by saying my hero(es) are the Black women who are out here living their truth and making the most out of life. From Paula Sutton, who lives peacefully and serenely in her country home in Norfolk, to Sharmaine Lovegrove, who to me is a publishing icon and brings stories that have been pushed aside for too long to the forefront. My peers, such as Mireille Harper, Hena Bryan and Lemara Lindsay-Prince who are out here doing bits! I’m inspired every day by these individuals and my closest friends, who remind me that each day is an opportunity for growth."
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What does your future look like as a young Black woman in Britain today?
"I can’t say for certain but what I am seeing at the moment is an incredible number of Black women finally being paid their dues. Each day, I see some good news from Black women and I can’t help but smile because the world would rather we didn’t know our worth and love ourselves. However, Black women are beautiful, creative and pioneering spirits. Seeing these successes gives me hope and I hope for a future where Black women are respected and treated like the incredible people that they are."
Where do you see yourself in five years?
"After the events of this year, I find it a bit difficult to picture what life will look like in five years. I think I know now that I want to live a life where I’m confident and comfortable being me. I no longer want to second-guess myself or apologise for my existence because this world is as much mine as it is everyone else’s. Career-wise, if I stay in my current industry, then I hope to be a trailblazer and to light the path towards a more inclusive and diverse industry. Another alternative vision is that I’m now working as a marketing and PR freelancer and thriving. I’m not thinking too hard about relationships but hopefully I can have fun with whoever I may be with."
What are your worries and concerns?
"As I get older, I find that I grow more and more fearful of our changing climate. You can feel the weather and the natural world shift and change as corporations and governments make decisions that guarantee the destruction of our beautiful planet. This fear is heightened when I realise that the people who will face the worst of this are minorities and indigenous groups due to environmental racism. From poisoned water in Flint to wildfires in the Americas and Australia, deforestation and more. The uncertainty of where our world is headed has made me rethink things such as the choice to have children and how I should look after myself. I’m also nervous about the aftermath of this pandemic. This is still something that’s a long way away but I can’t help but wonder how we will emerge on the other side."
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What are you excited about?
"Potential! It may seem a bit abstract but I have found that at times I am incredibly critical of myself and I do not celebrate my achievements, no matter if they are big or small. Despite the question mark hanging over the future, I’m excited about all the things I may get up to in the next few years. I’m looking forward to all the people I am hopefully going to meet in the future, all the love I’m going to experience, travelling and carving my own unique path. When the time comes for me to pass on, I would love to say I lived a life I was proud of and that I was not held back by ‘what ifs’ or a lack of self-belief."

Mojola Akinyemi

Age: 19
Occupation: English Literature student 
Location: Cambridge via Basingstoke 
What do you make of the current political, economic and racial situation in the UK?
"It’s hard not to feel demoralised when you think about it all. I have news notifications on my phone from several online newspapers and it seems that each new one is another set of job cuts, or another MP resigning, or more deaths from coronavirus. My older sister actively avoids this to stay away from the revolving roulette of negativity. I don’t think I could do that though; I like being informed. I’m doggedly trying to force myself away from apathy. There’s this stereotype that the average young person simply doesn’t care about politics. 
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"From my experience, this is mostly because we feel that no one listens to us anyway, so what’s the point? Save your breath instead of shouting into the void. I look around me though, at my peers, and they remind me that it’s important to keep using my voice. Perhaps it’s the company I keep but I feel that it is unfair to generalise young people as being politically unaware. It’s dismissive and patronising. When we do speak up though, many are quick to dismiss us, as if you need to be a certain age to realise that there are instrumental flaws within society, flaws that truly are as clear as day. 
"With regards to the racial situation, personally, I’m exhausted by performativity. People are happy to post on their Instagram Stories but these disappear after 24 hours. Permanent change is something many are unwilling to do. The same goes with a lot of organisations and corporations. Even though they claim that they’re looking to be more inclusive, those in the higher levels, the management, tend to have the same demographics. I’m tired of buzzwords without any meaningful action behind them."
How do you hope Britain will change in the next decade?
"When thinking of change, a part of me is drawn to the expression ‘time is a flat circle’. We move forward in time but everything feels repetitive, like we’ve seen it before, heard it before. So many of the discussions and debates we are having today feel like they should have been settled years ago. It almost feels as though we are shifting backwards, like someone has set the remote to rewind, especially with the resurgence in brazen bigotry that simply goes unchecked. Despite all of this, I hope that in 10 years, Britain is a more retrospective country. A lot of people seem to think that pointing out harmful aspects of a country’s history must be antithetical to patriotism. I want us to acknowledge and progress into actively repairing the damaging aspects of colonialism. We need to diversify the curriculum. And we need to completely scrap the phrase ‘I’m not racist but’ because once you add that conjunction, we need to all stop listening."
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Who are your heroes?
"When I think of the most difficult decision that I could make, it would be emigrating from the country where I have spent most, if not all, of my life. Where almost all of my family lives. Where my culture is. Where my home is. My parents made that choice to move from Nigeria to the United Kingdom. There’s a lot that they left behind and it was for me and my sisters. For that sacrifice, and for everything they’ve done for me since, I’d say they were my personal heroes. I’m cautious of claiming celebrities or prominent figures to be my heroes. Every human being is flawed in some way, and some are better at hiding that than others."
What does your future look like as a young Black woman in Britain today?
"One big thing for me, before I arrived [at university], was the new master of my college being appointed, as the first Black female master of any Oxbridge college. The fact that, in 2020, we still have ‘the first of xyz’ is frustrating but nonetheless I was incredibly excited to meet her. I find older (well, older than me) Black women who are forging their own definitions of success to be infinitely motivating. The statistics and workplace anecdotes are terrifying, especially when tempered with what was not an entirely positive educational experience. The future looks challenging, like you’re trying to complete a Sisyphean task of moving upwards in life, with this giant rock of racism and misogyny trying to crush you and push you down. We shouldn’t mythologise it though, otherwise it stops being something we can pinpoint and actively work against. The structure is made up of individuals. To summarise: on the one hand, the future to me means independence, development and joy, and on the other, wage inequality, microaggressions and expensive lunches. It’s an interesting line to straddle."
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Where do you see yourself in five years?
"This question always makes me nervously laugh. I’ve never been one of those people who can draft a solid five-year plan of their wants and goals. I can barely make a list of New Year's resolutions. If I look back at how I was when I was 14 compared to now, I suppose I’d want to continue on the trajectory I’m going in. I’d like to be a happier, healthier, more emotionally intelligent 24-yea- old, with the increased awareness and determination that five more years on this Earth has given me. I love writing though, as you could probably tell by my degree choice. If 24-year-old me is doing something in that area, I’d be really proud of her."
What are your worries and concerns?
"Climate change is a big concern of mine but it’s such an abstract concern because there is so little change that can be made from individual actions. Reduce, reuse, recycle – but 100 companies are responsible for 71% of the world’s carbon emissions. And as ever, it is those with the least power that suffer the most, like with the recent floods in Senegal. This climate crisis coming at a time where the world’s political leaning seems to be shifting further right is especially anxiety-inducing. The world is a vast place and it’s hard not to feel helpless."
What are you excited about?
"The future lying in wait. Every generation so far has been convinced that theirs must be the worst ever. People have stood on the street with bells and bullhorns and shouted ‘the end is nigh’ for decades. Humans are resilient. I’m still hopeful."
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Paris Williams

Age: 22
Location: York 
Occupation: Student 
What do you make of the current political, economic and racial situation in the UK?
"I recently started listening to Say Your Mind by Kelechi Okafor and following Chanté Joseph among other Black peers, especially as Kelechi reinforced the notion that it was okay to be angry about racism and that I could be loud and angry because as a child who was racially bullied I was always told I have to be quiet and ‘not talk about it’. Thanks to these Black women, I’ve realised I can be angry about it. It is upsetting and I’ve had my racial trauma on repeat as I began to dig deep and discovered that I experienced microaggressions in spaces I thought were safe. It makes me angry that racism is still a debate in 2020. The situation at the minute has made me realise I have a lot of unhealed trauma surrounding race. The murder of George Floyd made me upset but I was more recently affected by Chadwick Boseman’s death despite it not being police brutality. It was yet another brother lost for the community."
How do you hope Britain will change in the next decade?
"I hope that when I have kids with my boyfriend, children learn about Black history and I’m not just talking about slavery and colonialism, [although] that is very important. But the notion that Africa is underdeveloped has to stop. Africa is rich in culture and Africa has a history beyond the slave trade. I hope that my children will learn about this in school and not just cis white middle class men fighting and winning some wars, like I did.
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"I hope that Britain will face the reality that racism is a problem in the UK and it’s more than just saying racial slurs and ‘I don’t like Black folk’. Racism is a multitude of things and for us to really change we have work to do in understanding you have to check your privilege constantly and do more to be better. I don’t expect Britain to be radical but a change would be nice. I want to see more Black women as CEOs with seats at the table, and not just the 'right' shade of Black. I want to see Britain listen to Black people get uncomfortable and ask how ordinary white folk can use their privilege and help Black people. Justice for the folk of Grenfell would be nice but under a Tory government that might be asking for too much. But overall I want Britain to make changes that will make a difference to Black people."

I want to see more Black women as CEOs with seats at the table, and not just the right shade of Black. I want to see Britain listen to Black people, and justice for the folk of Grenfell would be nice but under a Tory government that might be asking for too much.

Paris williams, 22
Who are your heroes and why?
"My hero is Frantz Fanon. When I was being racially bullied aged six, my mum explained what it meant. She grabbed my hands and explained that my skin colour was not a curse but a gift and my ‘double consciousness’ would allow me to be kinder and more thoughtful and want to help others. As I got older she taught me more and more about his philosophy and how he analysed racism and it made me see my skin colour as a gift and not a curse. Having ‘double consciousness’ has allowed me to be thoughtful and patient and see problems and dilemmas from multiple angles. My mum wanted me to see that seeing the world through two lenses wasn’t necessarily a bad thing; by seeing it as a ‘gift’, Fanon’s philosophy allowed the younger me to not resent herself."
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What does your future look like as a young Black woman in Britain today?
"Being a Black woman today means I frequently face misogynoir and experience oppression for being Black and for being a woman. I think what I am noticing more and more is compliments for being the ‘right shade of Black’ which disheartens me as all melanin is beautiful. However, the rise of mixed race folk being seen as a fashion accessory, almost a commodity, rather than actual people is scary because people expect them to be lighter with Eurocentric features, which is more desirable and ticks the token Black folk box, something I feel a lot of men hide their views behind when asked if they date Black women. They say ‘I date Black women’ but what they mean is they’ve dated Light Skin Keisha and have a crush on Maya Jama and Jorja Smith. So they date a specific shade of Black woman. Despite having two Black parents I do feel like there is this fetishisation of lighter skinned people and it makes me uneasy that my future may move from racism to battling racism and people fetishising me at the same time.
"However, I will never walk the same path as my dark skinned sisters. My mum is dark skinned and she has a different struggle. Although my future looks tough, I understand it would be harder if I were to face colourism too. Therefore, I hope to use my privilege not to speak for darker skinned women but to act as an ally to help and ensure that one day they won’t experience discrimination for simply being a darker hue. I want to succeed and prove every teacher that told my mum I wouldn’t achieve, wrong. I want to be an empowered and successful woman working alongside all genders and races, making a change in the world. I will attempt to do everything I’ve been told not to."
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Where do you see yourself in five years?
"I’d like to be working in one of the big four finance companies in London with some freelance journalism work on the side. I have big opinions and I want to share them with the world. Blogging and writing is my side hustle because every millennial and Gen Z must have a side hustle, right? (Sarcasm.)"

I am proud to be Black and outwardly showcase my Blackness through braids and kente cloth. I am loud about my struggle as a Black woman.

paris williams, 22
What are your worries and concerns about the future?
"Getting on the property ladder. I recently saw the tweet from an interracial couple in which they said that when they removed Black-owned things from their house and replaced them with Shakespeare, their house was given a higher value. I am proud to be Black and outwardly showcase my Blackness through braids and kente cloth. I am loud about my struggle as a Black woman and to know that these things can and often do affect employability, house values, etc. is scary and daunting. I am scared that the children I may have with my Black partner may walk the same struggle of racism at school."
What are you excited about?
"I’m excited about finishing my degree and growing as a person. I’m actually excited to write my dissertation, to an extent. Although I’d rather do a voice memo than write it haha! Lockdown made me grow but there is more healing to be done. I want to travel and try to speak up and out about the injustices Black people face."

Grace Davies-Redmond

Age: 22
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Location: Bath
Occupation: Junior account executive at PR agency
What do you make of the current political, economic and racial situation in the UK?
"Politically, I think that our current state is really confusing — I just can’t work it out. It’s too serious to be laughable but sometimes I find myself lost for words. Our media is so toxic, no one is represented fairly, everyone has an agenda. No one wants to listen but everyone wants to be heard when they say they are doing the ‘right thing’. Often, organisations are all talk and no action; it’s important to hold people accountable and fairness has to be the ultimate decider, no matter who you are or what you do."
How do you hope Britain will change in the next decade?
"I’d love to think that as a society, we can start listening to the voices of specific groups of people and take their experiences, thoughts and feelings to be genuine without questioning their motive or sincerity. If we can get to a place where people don’t feel the need to be so automatically defensive when others talk about their experiences, I think that would have a huge impact.
"I also hope women are safe, respected and accepted as equals. I hope people of colour don’t need to burn themselves out physically and mentally, fighting for equality. Most of all, I so deeply hope people feel less of a need to explain themselves or have a label, [that] they can exist without fear of rejection or judgement. I feel our need as a society to label everyone is mind-blowing, [the] need to be put in a box — where you are from, who you love. I hope I can bring my children up in an environment where they can unapologetically be themselves.”
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Who are your heroes?
"For me, it’s hard to pinpoint one single person as a ‘hero’. There are so many incredible people who beat the odds. I look up to activists such as Malala Yousafzai for being so relentlessly powerful in an environment that is structured to silence her. I look up to single parents — including my mum — who have worked, raised children, juggled everything thrown at them with such grace and invincibility. I look up to anyone who goes out of their way to stand up for others, even when it isn’t an issue that involves them or affects them personally. Arguably, this should be the norm but so many people turn a blind eye — and it’s so easy to do, I’m sure we are all guilty of it in one way or another."

I'd love to think that as a society, we can start listening to the voices of specific groups of people and take their experiences, thoughts and feelings to be genuine without questioning their motive or sincerity.

Grace Davies-Redmond, 22
What does your future look like as a young Black woman in Britain today?
"In the short term, the future for me looks very similar to now — necessary, essential conversations aren’t over, if anything they are just beginning and there is a long road ahead. Systematic injustice has been prevalent for years and these issues aren’t going to be fixed overnight. But I am also optimistic. As tough as our current situation is, it’s empowering. Maybe it’s because I’m surrounded by those of a similar mindset but I genuinely think the stigma around race conversations is starting to change. As tiring as it may be, not being able to turn a blind eye to this societal uproar is critical for progression. I do think we have to be careful in the approach — as much as we shouldn’t have to — but being impactful is key. I believe for BPOC in our current state, there is no correct ‘way’ to react, it’s so individual, so it’s hard to ‘paint everyone with the same brush’. But I hope young Black or mixed race women can thrive in their own way, without fear of judgment from anyone — Black or white."
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Where do you see yourself in five years?
"In five years’ time, I still see myself working in the communications and media industry. But I’d like to think I will have found a way to make my work and personal passions coincide. I’m already thinking about how I can pass experience on, if I am lucky enough to find myself in a position to do so, whether through mentoring or just being vocal as a senior woman and person of colour. I don’t want to be an exception."
What are your worries and concerns? 
"I’m really trying to implement a mindset that isn’t overly forward-thinking — which doesn’t always come easily. While I think it’s important to have goals, I’m aware that I like to plan, be organised and sometimes you just need to go with the flow. So I’m making a conscious effort to not overthink the future. It’s not uncommon (I hope) to have those conflicting mindsets, and finding a balance between the two is my goal. But I always think it’s natural to have worries. Like most 22-year-olds, I’d be lying if I said I was 100% sure on what I want to do, or where I want to be in 20 years' time. Deep down, I know that things will work out but the unknown can be daunting. Will I be successful? Will I be happy? I guess the unknown can be exciting too.
"I also want to make sure I find the balance between speaking my mind and standing up for what I believe in, without causing personal conflict or negatively impacting important relationships. Thankfully, this isn’t happening yet and I’m set on not getting it. I’m in a place where I know myself and my limits but I also know things can easily become overwhelming for so many different reasons, so it’s important to be aware of this."
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With BLM, I've found confidence to be passionate and secure in my own voice and experiences. I'm no longer willing to be labelled as 'sensitive' and I owe that to the community that has come together to share their individual experiences.

Grace Davies-Redmond, 22
What are you excited about?
"I feel like this point in my life is such a self-discovery age, for many reasons. I’m appreciative that I’m at an age where I can be taken seriously and listened to but also explore myself and make mistakes. As a woman in today’s society, there are so many pressures to look or act a certain way but I’m reaching a place where I’m accepting things about myself that previously I’ve been so desperate to change. Which is crazy, and another subject in itself. Whether it has been my hair, or muscular legs, I’m learning to accept what I’ve been blessed with, which is such an empowering feeling.
"Recently with BLM, I’ve found confidence to be passionate and secure in my own voice and experiences. I’m no longer willing to be labelled as ‘sensitive’ and I owe that to the community that has come together to share their individual experiences. The scale means we can’t be ignored or dismissed anymore. That’s hugely empowering."

Mercy Abel

Age: 22
Location: Glasgow
Occupation: Associate at cultural consultancy firm
What do you make of the current political, economic and racial situation in the UK?
"Politically, I have experienced quite a different mindset from Scotland and other parts in the UK. Outside of voting, usually, politics and I don’t go hand in hand but I feel in recent years this is something that just cannot be ignored and it’s quite unsettling. Economically, I just think everything’s so unsure — especially after Brexit and what will come from that. I can only hope that my generation and the ones behind me will be able to navigate this uncertain future. Racially, I feel the UK has really experienced a much needed shake-up during the recent surge of the Black Lives Matter movement. Living in Scotland, I have been in majority white spaces my entire life and almost lost my Blackness. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve realised how important it is to consciously immerse myself in my heritage (Tanzanian) and discover what being Black means to me. I want the positiveness of being Black to be normalised because it’s the core of who I am and there’s no reason for that not to be embraced and celebrated."
How do you hope Britain will change in the next decade?
"I really hope that Britain will acknowledge its part in the core issues of racism and that it does in fact still exist in the UK. Ignoring that only prevents the drive to learn from it and so we cannot move forward in dismantling it. Discounting or paying no regard to mistakes of the past does nothing for helping create a better future."

I want the positiveness of being Black to be normalised because it's the core of who I am and there's no reason for that not to be embraced and celebrated.

Mercy abel, 22
Who are your heroes?
"I would say collectively, my family are my heroes. We have an undying support for one another and I am my fullest self when I am around them — I feel most like me. This is such a freeing feeling as I’m usually in spaces where I have been conditioned to code-switch. Because of this, professionally, I would say my hero is Netflix’s chief marketing officer, Bozoma Saint John. She is unapologetically her full self and is one of few Black women that I have the honour to look up to in a C-suite position. Love her."
What does your future look like as a young Black woman in Britain today?
"I do my best to focus on the positives and with the energy that my generation and the ones behind me have on being activists and voicing our strong passion on what we care about, I think the future looks promising. I am able to speak more freely on what I believe I deserve as a young Black woman professionally and personally, which is something that my mum or aunties struggled with before me."

I really hope that Britain will acknowledge its part in the core issues of racism and that it does in fact still exist in the UK. Ignoring that only prevents the drive to learn from it and so we cannot move forward in dismantling it.

Mercy abel, 22
Where do you see yourself in five years?
"I rarely think of where I see myself that far into the future as — with 2020 as a true example — the future is just too uncertain to plan that far ahead. Each year, I am working to continually learn, grow and succeed every day and so in five years, I hope to further my career as a creative and in marketing. Also, I have such a love for travelling so with every prayer and wish I hope that the world opens so that in the near future I can travel for work and freely travel for leisure again!"
What are your worries and concerns about the future?
"How long it will take for things to really get better. I do hope that things will get better but I am just realistically concerned about how long that will take. I want to live to see the day when we have a Black prime minister in the UK."
What are you excited about?
"I am excited about Black History Month in the UK this year. 2020 has really forced people to pay attention and empowered Black voices to have the courage to speak up and I really think that people are starting to listen! This has pushed and encouraged me to work on exciting personal projects launching in October to be a voice in the Black narrative and I’m sure it has done the same for others."

Olivia Mushigo

Age: 23
Location: London
Occupation: Senior account executive, PR 
What do you make of the current political, economic and racial situation in the UK?
"I feel very uneasy and concerned for the future but I am hopeful as there’s been a lot of actions by brands and prominent people."
How do you hope Britain will change in the next decade?
"I hope Brits educate themselves on Black history and racial issues in general. I hope we continue the conversation around racism and sexism for years to come and continue to hold racist institutions and people accountable."

My hero is my grandma, 80, who lives in Ireland. She has suffered racial abuse in a country she calls her home but continues to smile.

Olivia mushigo, 23
Who are your heroes?
"Despite being over 80, my grandma lives in Ireland. She has suffered racial abuse in a country she calls her home but continues to smile."
What does your future look like as a young Black woman in Britain today?
"My future is bright as I continue to work hard and hopefully, one day reach a point in my career where I go and be like, 'damn Livvy, you made it' as I sit in my Range Rover, paid in full, in Jesus’ name. I also hope to find social media success for my food page (@knivestomeetyou and @whenwillimarry)."

I'm excited about growing older, wiser and more beautiful.

Olivia mushigo, 23
What are your worries and concerns about the future?
"That my children will be born into a world where they are predominantly hated, and racial tensions."
What are you excited about?
"Growing older, wiser and more beautiful."
Where do you see yourself in five years?
"As a creative lead for lit brands."

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